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Post by Orca on Feb 2, 2008 19:55:36 GMT -5
get rid of head coaches..... no business in fantasy along with fullbacks and punters! I 2nd that. Get rid of the DEF/ST position along with it too. I agree with Ron Mexico about incorporating IDP's in the near future... beginning 2010 would be great, as it gives GM's a chance to plan with draft picks and BLB's. Some tams have sighed Defenses for multiple years. This would screw over those teams. Again, if we make a change like tis there needs to be a time frame so owners can adjust accordingly |
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Post by Rebels GM on Feb 2, 2008 19:57:20 GMT -5
If we decide to do anything of this magnitude. I assure you that we will make certain that everyone is happy.
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Post by Orca on Feb 2, 2008 20:04:21 GMT -5
that is to try and create parody All it does is encourage teams to suck big fat dicks at the end of the year instead of trying to win games. At the very least, the two worst teams should play a game like the 3rd / 4th place team do and the winner gets the 25 BLB's. Why do they get BLBs at all. They already get a high draft pick, isn't that enough |
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Post by Orca on Feb 2, 2008 20:08:44 GMT -5
I think we should have a qb and his backup (if we want) and not have it go against our qb limit of three. Quarterbacks from the same team should count as 1. I disagree. However I wouldn't be opposed to raising the QB limit to 4. A starter, one backup and only one developmental QB isn't really enough. If your starter goes down and your 3rd QB is a rookie you're just praying your #2 QB doesn't snap his neck. |
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Post by Orca on Feb 2, 2008 20:09:17 GMT -5
I keep seeing 2009 as a potential year of major changes. I have to say we NEED to make it 2010. We all had access to 2009 draft picks in Odies league and made decisions based on Odies rules. 2010 is truly the first year we'll be free
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Post by Orca on Feb 2, 2008 20:20:18 GMT -5
2. I’d go to 6 playoff teams. No disrespect here, but if I only go .500 or (ugh!) a game under that, I don’t think I’m really of playoff caliber in an elite league. totally agree You're going down! why do we give BLBs at all to these non Fantasy league factors. I vote we dump it all. It's not necessary and only distracts from the focus of league play |
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Post by Barrister on Feb 3, 2008 4:57:01 GMT -5
Wow. I thought pigs would be flying over the frozen tundra of Hell before I agreed with Loq on much of anything. Still, outside of his reference to 2009 & 2010 regarding IDPs, I don’t have any major problems with his comments. I must be aging and mellowing faster than I thought. But let me try this argument out on everybody. I planned my entire team and player contracts around last year’s rules and league dynamics, which included the bonus for QBs. That’s why I drafted Drew “The Mad Bomber” Brees, and why I signed him to the maximum 7 year contract. It’s not fair to me to junk the QB Bonus rule until his contract runs out in 2014. The same goes for getting rid of HCs. I signed Bill Belicheat to a lengthy 5 year contract -- at considerable expense, I might add -- based on my recognition of the importance of a 15 point swing in a league where the average score is around 100 pts or less. It's not my fault that I fully recognized that and I shouldn't be penalized for my foresight. It's simply not fair to me to junk the HC or alter the current scoring rule until his contract runs out in 2012. I could argue that these proposals are so unfair to me and the way I planned my team under the rules, that I have to assume their only purpose is to destroy my team, take away my hard-earned and properly obtained superiority, and prevent the creation of a Blitzkrieg Dynasty, rather than to benefit the league as a whole by adopting a more realistic scoring system. Do I win my argument? If not, why not?   Man, I’m praying to the ff gods that I get scheduled to play both Loq & GT this year. Their women and children will not be safe. Although I may spare their dogs and give them to Guru to have his way with.  |
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Post by gametime on Feb 3, 2008 7:53:36 GMT -5
I hope to that I get to play you to Crapkrieg...... If you're happy that you can only win because of a head coach, hey I'll buy a mirror for you to look into.... Good thing is I won't play a head coach against you, take the rediculous -15 to start and still beat you...  |
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Post by gametime on Feb 3, 2008 7:54:02 GMT -5
BTW.. thanks for sparing my dog!
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Post by Football Buddah on Feb 3, 2008 11:34:14 GMT -5
I could argue that these proposals are so unfair to me and the way I planned my team under the rules, that I have to assume their only purpose is to destroy my team, take away my hard-earned and properly obtained superiority, and prevent the creation of a Blitzkrieg Dynasty, rather than to benefit the league as a whole by adopting a more realistic scoring system. Don - you hit the nail right on the head. We can't continue to use the fact that we all signed players for extended contracts, or don't have draft picks for '08 or '09, as reasons for not making changes THIS year. Obviously, any changes made will cause an impact to the GM's - some positive, some negative - but, I firmly believe that all of our GM's are talented enough to overcome these challenges for themselves, and for the good of the league. |
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Post by gametime on Feb 3, 2008 11:45:09 GMT -5
If we do away with coaches, you get those contract years back, which helps... Yeah you may lose some BLB's you spent on them, but how many players have you traded, dropped, or signed and wished you didn't that cost you some blb's..... That's part of the game and the "salary cap" aspect to this league IMO
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Post by Barrister on Feb 3, 2008 16:57:38 GMT -5
Buddah - Both the current HC scoring & QB Bonus rules benefit my team, obviously. However, I cannot with a straight face tell you that I believe they are "good" or reasonable rules in consideration of this league's scoring system as a whole.
A 15 pt. swing possibility is too large for a 100 pt/gm league. Personally, I do like the HC position, and believe it has a place in ff. I would reduce it to something like 5-7 for a W, and 0 for and L (probably 7 if we add IDP scoring). However, if the majority of the league wants to dump it -- and I understand GT's position here -- I'll live with it and move on. Nothing personal -- I assume everyone's voting for what they believe will advance the integrity of the league's scoring system.
Similar to that is the QB Bonus rule. I agree with Loq that it should be scrapped, as I think the other QB rules are already generous enough for that position. Again, my team is impacted because Brees tends to throw all day and night to talented WRs and Bush out of the backfield. Still, I'm willing (and I hope others are) to dump this "pile-on" scoring rule.
Even adding IDPs is risky for my team. I had a good year last year, and should have a good returning team. Adding IDPs clearly changes the status quo. If I were looking only to keep whatever advantages I have under the current system, I would vote against IDPs. Nevertheless, I'm willing to risk where my team now stands in the "Power Rankings" in order to bring this great league up to the next level now.
As is the case with these issues, I want to assure everybody that my views on what the rules of the league should be are based on what I think will make the league, and not necessarily my team, better and a more elite one to play in - even if the Blitzkrieg has to take it in the a*s on occasion.
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Post by gametime on Feb 3, 2008 17:41:19 GMT -5
:thumbs up to The Blitzkrieg!
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Post by Wonderlickers on Feb 4, 2008 8:31:45 GMT -5
Strong stuff, Barrister...very nicely said. IMO, I also think the HC position does have a place in FF but that the suggested reduction in points for a W or L would better complement the weight of the position in relation to the rest of the league.
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Post by Johns Jackrabbits on Feb 5, 2008 10:08:05 GMT -5
I like the idea of the "extra" chances to get BLBS (and not just because I set up the NCAA Tourney for TBL). You will find over time that the extra BLBs you acquire go a long way towards bidding for Rookies or making Trades. Ask Rob about BLBS, he just dropped 375 BLBs to sign Marques Colston away from me in TBL during the RFA period going on now. Without the stockpile of BLBs from previous years and the ability to make trades of players for BLBS, this is not possible.
Good players will go for 80+ BLBs and when you break that down, you can only wind up being able to bid on and win 2 or 3 players in RFA as it is without wiping out your entire total of BLBs.
The extra non-football things just add to the competition and cost you nothing to get in. But, if you win, you can put yourself in a better position to get a quality player to build your team around.
There is so much talk about this change and that change, that before long we will have been better off to create a new league from scratch with new rules since we seem to be heading down a path of changing everything that was set up previously.
I would love to see the IDPs this year, but no later than 2009. As far as the Head Coach goes, if we want the true experience, why not have it in there? Sure it is at most a 15 point swing, but there have been some close games where the HC was the deciding factor.
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Post by gametime on Feb 5, 2008 10:28:47 GMT -5
and there lies the problem.... If I lose to LT or a late touchdown from Hines Ward, I can live with that... If I lose because my coach had a tougher game and yours had an easier game, I can't! The deciding factor should not be good teams vs. bad teams (and deny it all you want, that's what a head coach is!!!) it should come down to the players...... Belicheck said it better after the Super Bowl, they made more plays than we did.... He didn't say they made more coaching moves than we did!! Football is decided on the field....... Maybe we could subtract from coaches when an interception is thrown... they called it.. If they didn't the interception wouldn't have happened......... And I agree.. I think the blb's are what make this league unique and interesting.... They really add to the strategy/fun of it.. |
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Post by Rebels GM on Feb 5, 2008 10:53:25 GMT -5
Guys,
I gotta say I agree with John on this one here. The enthusiasm and energy that we have is great, but the potential to frighten off good GMs is NOT worth it to me. Not sure if you guys know his or not but Neil has decided to step down as he is not in agreement with all of the changes that are being talked about (one of the thing I assured him of when I salvaged this league would be NO major changes this season and now we are talking about adding IDPs in 2008) I am all for adding IDPs but NOT at the expense of losing quality GMs as would would lose if Neil and Jerry leave over the IDPs.
Don't get me wrong, we cannot cater to every GMs needs, but I personally think with everything that this league has been through we need to PROCEED WITH CAUTION. This league is hanging by a thread as it is I for one will not sit around and let the issue of IDPs or HCs destroy what could be one hell of a league.
If making wholesale changes was the case, I would have just gone and done it when I set this league up as I personally feel that the 2 conference set up with only 6 teams making the postseason (which we use in TBL) provides FAR more competition than the current 4 division set up that could potentially have a 5-7 team make the playoffs.
We need to take a step back and thinkg about this entire situation, this is NOT a new league it is an extension of a league what was sabotaged by a piece of shit. The fact that we had 12 of 16 original GMs really meant something to me and I am very disappointed that Neil is stepping down. I do NOT see this as a good thing for this league and I personally feel that the level of competition just took a step back with his loss.
I know you guys are going to say things that if this is an elite league blah,blah,blah...but the most important thing about a league is the GMs and you don't get a much better GM than Neil Parker.
Like I said before, lets take this thing SLOW! Let's not make wholesale changes in ONE season. As for the blbs, I suggest we adopt the current system that is in place in TBL as far as awards go and such, part of this system is to help create parody and give the teams that had bad seasons a chance to make a splash in RFA.
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Post by Rebels GM on Feb 5, 2008 11:14:40 GMT -5
I meant that last post with the utmost respect to everyone voicing the concerns about IDPs and HCs. I just do not want these things ripping this league apart. I think that Shodan would be very happy to hear we lost a GM and I for one want this league to be something that is very special and sticks together for many, many years.
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Post by gametime on Feb 5, 2008 12:36:18 GMT -5
While that uis a loss because Neil is a great FFer and a great commish, I don't agree with the "I'm taking my ball and going home" philosohpy.... Discussions are great for leagues. It makes them evolve.... I don't think anyone has been beligerent or derogatory to anyone. I know I haven't aken anything to heart and I do see the other side of the coin... I still don't think anything major is being discussed. The big issue is ADDING to the league, not erasing or changing the past. Removing head coaches is my idea and obviously is not going to happen. I can live with that, I may not agree with it, but I certainly am not quitting over it. In fact it gets my juices flowing more... What will you guys think when I win with one, if not the worst coach this year! I never meant to ruffle feathers to the point of someone leaving, but if a discussion on some things can't take place how does a league move forward. No league has a set of rules top to bottom that everyone loves. Hell, I run my own league and their are things I'd like to change.... Quitting doesn't solve a dman thing... Neil I hope would come back as he is an asset to any league.... but if someone would give up over head coaches and adding 4 positions.... geez.... The offer is on the table... I WILL give up all my picks if need be to move this league forward.... I really think I am in the minority here in looking out for the league.... That should scare the hell out of some of you....
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Post by fbguru on Feb 5, 2008 12:41:01 GMT -5
Rob...sorry but I have to questions the parameters you use to determine and elite GM. RonMexico quit a league based on potential changes is weak. When the dust settles, the cream will rise to the top and we can honestly say we have 16 elite GMs.
better we find out now than 2 years from now. see, he would have quit then once IDP was implemented if we waited until 2010.
That was a bad job by Neil.
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Post by Johns Jackrabbits on Feb 5, 2008 13:51:38 GMT -5
Look at it this way, the Coach position is there, but if the scoring system was better, the HC would not really factor into it and could then be considered for removal. In TBL and RZB last year, there were games when Tom Brady got me 80-90 points and in RZB, when I checked his scoring, he had 10 or 14. If you put the bonuses in for QBs, RBS, WRs, etc..., then that HC position is not as much of a factor. In the current RZB scroing system, that coach can win or lose a game for you. I gotta admit, I love the high-scoring of TBL, our average weeks would see scores of 170-140 or 240-198 (just for some random examples) and some weeks we had over 300 points for 1 team. It was so nice to know that if I was down by 80 points but I had Brady yet to go then I knew I still had a chance. In RZB, if I was down by 15 or 20 with my QB yet to play, it was over. Maybe the HC is expendable, but without the scoring being improved to offer greater rewards, then that 10-15 point swing does make the difference.
I have a printed copy of the RZB Rules from last year and for passing, we got this:
4 points for a TD
1 point for a 2-point conversion
10 bonus points for 30+ completions
-2 points for in interception.
If your QB threw 3 TDs and 1 Interception but only had 29 completions, you would get a whopping 10 points. If your HC won, he got 10 points...where was the logic in that? The scoring system would be the first overhaul I could see, then we can worry about dropping the HC and going to IDPs in 2009...
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Post by Football Buddah on Feb 5, 2008 16:44:17 GMT -5
I really think I am in the minority here in looking out for the league. You're not. I think that everybody has the leagues interest in mind - it's just that everybody has differences of opinion, that's all. I wouldn't be so quick to judge Neil for his departure though, I honestly don't think it was soely based on the IDP's, rather the overall sweep of change discussion that led him to leave before he got too into something he didn't want to be a part of. With that said, that's all this is right now... DISCUSSION. Any and All changes MUST be for the good of the league. And, I'm not talking about a 9-7 "51% majority" vote either - becuase that obviously doesn't meet the need of the league if 7 owners are unsatisfied. I have taken on the role as the Commissioner, and I take that job very seriously. The best interest of the league is first and foremost what will be considered when ANY changes are going to be considered. Rob said it perfectly in that we need to PROCEED WITH CAUTION, and that's exactly what we will be doing. |
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Post by Barrister on Feb 6, 2008 6:31:51 GMT -5
John, maybe mine is different somehow, but my copy of the RZB rules from last year indicates that QBs also got 1 point for every 25 passing yards, as well as 5 bonus points for each 100 yards passing beginning at 300. Here's what I've got:
"15.10 Passing scoring rules:
15.11 4pts awarded for a passing TD, 1 pt awarded for a passing 2pt conversion, 2pts deducted for each interception
thrown
15.12 QBs shall be awarded 10 bonus points for reaching 30 completions in a game
15.13 QBs shall be awarded 1pt for each 25 total passing, rushing and receiving yards
15.14 QBs shall be awarded 5 bonus points for each 100 total passing, rushing and receiving yards starting with 300
total passing, rushing and receiving yards."
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Post by Wonderlickers on Feb 6, 2008 8:32:53 GMT -5
Wow...10 bonus points for 30 completions is ridiculous.
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Post by Wonderlickers on Feb 6, 2008 8:51:30 GMT -5
I concur with Peter Cottontail...the extra chances to gain BLB's encourage activity year round and I think that we should keep them.
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Post by Johns Jackrabbits on Feb 6, 2008 8:55:01 GMT -5
I see that now, if you flip all the way past section 19.00, you start into the "special rules" section and that where I was reading the scoring from for QB's (and actally for any position that wound up throwing a pass such as RB or WR options). I do see that in section 15 now...still, it was not much.
Hey licher: I like the "peter cottontail" reference... ;D
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Post by Orca on Feb 6, 2008 21:34:26 GMT -5
yes it is.
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Post by Barrister on Feb 7, 2008 4:39:24 GMT -5
I concur with Peter Cottontail...the extra chances to gain BLB's encourage activity year round and I think that we should keep them. I agree 1000% to keep the NCAA Bracket Challenge, NFL Picks, etc., and the blbs you can win in them. It helps to keep everyone involved and are fun to do. I really enjoy them too. I'm not suggesting we eliminate or decrease the blbs for the other fun stuff. I just think the blbs for achieving success in the actual ff aspects of the league should be increased. Especially if we're going to award 50 blbs for guessing the most basketball game winners right in a college tournament. As it is currently, the Blitz Bowl winner gets 15 blbs and everyone else 0. Again, my thought would be to give 30 blbs to the Blitz Bowl winner, 15 to the runner-up, 10 to the 3rd place finisher, 5 to the 4th, and another 5 blbs to each division winner. |
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Post by gametime on Feb 7, 2008 6:43:19 GMT -5
I echo Barrister's sentiments.... blb's seem so important... it's a great way to keep activity up and to help your team out by doing the "little things"
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Post by Football Buddah on Feb 7, 2008 16:59:45 GMT -5
BLB's are very important and will play a factor in the RFA and UFA process throughout the season.
Rewarding GM's for these off-season endevaour's is a great example of keeping people's interest in the league all year round. I intend to keep that going with the NCAA tourney and the NFL Draft Pick'em challenge.
The BLB reward system for the FF season though, that's something we should look at for potential changes, becuase I agree that there are some discrepancies.
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